Talk:Satyr Piper (4E)
Lockdown powers
Are the sustainable AoE lockdown powers balanced? They do require standard actions and cause no damage, but the large radius mean a lot of enemy actions will not happen. --Urban 15:31, 17 June 2009 (CEST)
- Note that Pied Piper is (A) Creatures in burst, not Enemies in burst and (B) "The effect is broken if the target is attacked or notices one of its allies being attacked". I.e, the effect is very fragile... --Mats 16:03, 17 June 2009 (CEST)
- Both concern and reply are valid. Pied Piper is clearly very situational; it is more a trick power than a combat power. It CAN be used to separate foes and lead some away etc. It might have ended up being too situational however. The version here is really a filler because the path needed a lvl 20 power after the rewamp - I'm open to suggestions if we can come up with other powers. --Starfox 09:31, 18 June 2009 (CEST)
- Actually, I'm more concerend with the level 11 power. It can be used every encounter, is sustainable, and affects enemies that enter the zone. It does not clearly state what happens when it is sustained, but I suspect the intent is to keep affected targets dazed. IMO the level 20 power is much less useful. --Urban 12:04, 18 June 2009 (CEST)
- The intent was that sustaining only affected targets that were already under the effect of the power, and I edited the first version power to reflect this. In my latest version, I made Dazing melody lvl 20 and allowing the attack to repeat with sustain; this is pretty much as you described it, only as a daily. I made Circle Dance, a new movement-only lvl 11 encounter power and gave an option to make that power into an At-Will for an encounter at the cost of an action point. Originally, Circle Dance was sustainable; this allows a sort of sustainability at the cost of an action point. --Starfox 12:43, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- I commented the AP usage below. --Urban 12:53, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- The intent was that sustaining only affected targets that were already under the effect of the power, and I edited the first version power to reflect this. In my latest version, I made Dazing melody lvl 20 and allowing the attack to repeat with sustain; this is pretty much as you described it, only as a daily. I made Circle Dance, a new movement-only lvl 11 encounter power and gave an option to make that power into an At-Will for an encounter at the cost of an action point. Originally, Circle Dance was sustainable; this allows a sort of sustainability at the cost of an action point. --Starfox 12:43, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- Actually, I'm more concerend with the level 11 power. It can be used every encounter, is sustainable, and affects enemies that enter the zone. It does not clearly state what happens when it is sustained, but I suspect the intent is to keep affected targets dazed. IMO the level 20 power is much less useful. --Urban 12:04, 18 June 2009 (CEST)
- Both concern and reply are valid. Pied Piper is clearly very situational; it is more a trick power than a combat power. It CAN be used to separate foes and lead some away etc. It might have ended up being too situational however. The version here is really a filler because the path needed a lvl 20 power after the rewamp - I'm open to suggestions if we can come up with other powers. --Starfox 09:31, 18 June 2009 (CEST)
At-will Buff
Master Piper is very powerful as an at-will power with multi-choice area effects. The drawback is of course that it is a standard action to use and only lasts one round. Is this acceptable? The powers comes from the Satyr Piper monster, but player and monster powers are balanced differently. --Starfox 09:38, 18 June 2009 (CEST)
- I think the power is probably OP even though it's a standard action since it affects all allies in a large radius. I have strong objections to all the powers requiring standard actions, and would go so far as to say it's bad design. The path allows (even encourages) a character to use a single power the entire combat (Dazing Melody or Master Piper). This means less incentive to be involved in the action, need to make decisions or use non-path powers. --Urban 12:15, 18 June 2009 (CEST)
- It is very similar to Versatile Glamor from Student of the Seven. It has less diverse effects, is less powerful in its effects, and requires more actions in trade for being at-will. If this is overpowered, then so is that one double-up. --Mats 00:28, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- Versatile Glamor (Student of the Seven 12) is a daily power that affects you or one target until end of the encounter. Master Piper (Satyr Piper 12) is an at-will power that affects you and all allies in a close burst 5 until end of next round. Even if Master Piper requires a standard action (which is not unusual for leader buffs), the fact that a different effect can be used at-will and has a vastly greater area makes Master Piper quite a bit better. --Urban 00:42, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- In alt 2 I tuned down the effect and made it Daily; it is now a minor action daily, but two of the versions are sustainable. It will certainly affect the fight it is used in, but not every fight. I need to polish the encounter version tough; making it sustainable risks making it boring and repetitive. --Starfox 12:10, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- Sustainable powers is pretty much a daily thing only. There are only two sustainable encounter powers in the Compendium. --Urban 12:28, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- In alt 2 I tuned down the effect and made it Daily; it is now a minor action daily, but two of the versions are sustainable. It will certainly affect the fight it is used in, but not every fight. I need to polish the encounter version tough; making it sustainable risks making it boring and repetitive. --Starfox 12:10, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- Versatile Glamor (Student of the Seven 12) is a daily power that affects you or one target until end of the encounter. Master Piper (Satyr Piper 12) is an at-will power that affects you and all allies in a close burst 5 until end of next round. Even if Master Piper requires a standard action (which is not unusual for leader buffs), the fact that a different effect can be used at-will and has a vastly greater area makes Master Piper quite a bit better. --Urban 00:42, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- It is very similar to Versatile Glamor from Student of the Seven. It has less diverse effects, is less powerful in its effects, and requires more actions in trade for being at-will. If this is overpowered, then so is that one double-up. --Mats 00:28, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
Alternate Version
I must say that the alternate version is completely flavorless, meaningless and boring :( :( :(. It's like multiclassing into a genericized leader class where everything unique has been removed. --Mats 23:38, 19 June 2009 (CEST)
The alternate version seems to be more balanced than the original, and the level 20 power is certainly more useful in combat. --Urban 00:28, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- Not really - since it is just a generic buff-bot power, it gets eaten up by the DM raising the monster, compensating to keep the threat level. In the end you spend a resource just to keep status quo. It's the most boring thing possible, since it does not allow you or your allies to do anything new. --Mats 00:40, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
Piper Frenzy
Perhaps something like "If you spend an action point to taken an extra action, you recover the power if you have used it this encounter"? This is more in-line with how AP abilities work. Making it a at-will seems needlessly complicated and requires additional bookkeeping (e.g., a green and red version of the same card). --Urban 12:46, 20 June 2009 (CEST)
- The idea is that if you spend an action point on it, you can use it constantly. It could have been a daily power with a "For the rest of the encounter, you can..." line on it. Only in this case, it is tied to action points instead of being a daily. --Starfox 00:47, 21 June 2009 (CEST)
