Talk:Cleric Spell List Additions (Apath)

9 Level Spread

Level Zero

1. brand,
2. daze,
3. flare,

Level 1

1. adjuring step,
2. anticipate peril,
3. discern next of kin,
4. disguise weapon,
5. keep watch,
6. lock gaze,
7. peacebond,
8. righteous blood,
9. unerring weapon,

Level 2

1. animal messenger (patron's animal only),
2. castigate,
3. coordinated effort,
4. fester,
5. heightened awareness,
6. howling agony,
7. placebo effect,
8. qualm,
9. rage,

Level 3

1. cast out,
2. dream shield,
3. gallant inspiration,
4. haunting choir,
5. heroism,
6. honeyed tongue,
7. purge spirit,
8. retribution,

Level 4

1. animal ambassador (patron's animal only),
2. banishing blade,
3. banish seeming,
4. crushing despair,
5. good hope,
6. keen edge,
7. named bullet,
8. tireless pursuers,

Level 5

1. age resistance (lesser),
2. brand (greater),
3. castigate (mass),
4. denounce,
5. feast on fear,
6. grand destiny,
7. peacebond (greater),
8. vengeful outrage,

Level 6

1. fester (greater),
2. forced repentance,
3. foster hatred,
4. heroism (greater),
5. litany of righteousness,
6. telepathic bond,

Level 7

1. age resistance,
2. brilliant inspiration,
3. crime wave,
4. litany of madness,
5. named bullet (greater),

Level 8

1. control undead,
2. insanity,
3. life of crime,
4. magic army,

Level 9

1. age resistance (greater),
2. heroic invocation,
3. iron body,

Mats' Comments

Sift

"You must be able to see the area you are attempting to search, and you only find details that can be perceived with sight or touch." So, you can detect things you can see in an area you already see... What's the difference compared to just looking at the area and rolling perception? The cantrip has a range of 30 ft, but 30 ft is a distance modifer of -3, and this has a builtin modifier of -5.

There is still the difference between Perception from 3.5 - spot and search. It is never explained, but there in everybody's mind.

Brand

The Phantom's mark...

Flare

Dazzled is a minor debuff, but it lasts for a minute, which is more than most cantrips.

It doesn't say, but to me it implied that this would allow the use of Stealth.

Adjuring Step

Personal. Very hard to use, as movement breaks it. For an autoturret spellcaster that wants to counter the follow-up feat. If you cast it outside the dungeon room during buff-up-rounds, you cannot then move into that room, unless you start as first in line...

Double-checked - it is a single regular move that breaks the spell, and not a run. "discharges as soon as you [...] move more than 5 feet with a single move action."

Anticipate Peril

Solid initiative buff. Somewhat hampered by duration - "Heightened Awareness" has a lower buff but much more easy-to-use duration. That duration limitation may not be that bad if we consider how long "minute per level" spells are in actual play for us.

Heightened Awareness

Personal. Much better duration than Anticipate Peril for stealthing through dungeons, somewhat lesser buff. Skill bonuses that probably will collide with other competence bonuses.

This ended up at 2nd level as a stronger and Personal spell.

Discern Next of Kin

Can think of three uses:

• Putting on more pressure when blackmailing ("if you don't give us the Macguffin, we will kill your daughter Eleonora")
• Revealing infiltrators ("Hm, that 'elf' has drow as parents")
• Pretending you are a friend/family ("Of course I know uncle Albert").

Would really like to know what the writer intended.

I can see high-fantasy uses. "Lo, behold the true heir!"

That would really be a once-in-a-campaign effect... :) also, "you can learn only what the target knows or believes", so you can find the lost heirs who know they are heirs.

True. Considered making the an orison, but its now just a bad 1st level spell

Disguise Weapon

Disguise weapon as *another* weapon? Huh!? I can see an use for disguising that you *have* a weapon, but who really cares what weapon you have? Is there any situations where bludgeoning weapons are allowed while slashing are not, for example?

A staff, rod, or cane are all weapons.

It is kind of silly, but it does allow improvised weapons. Almost any object can be an improvosed weapon. So the disguise as a weapon limitation is negated. :o

So, "I disguise my sword as a wine bottle, since the latter can be an improvised weapon?" Might as well allow disguise into any object.

True

Hex Watch

Bonus on saves versus witch hexes. Really situational.

Oddly, there is no all-around resistance bonus to saves spells. Perhaps writing that would be a better idea. I made greater resistance to fill this niche. Removed this spell.

Unerring Weapon

Critfisher support. Needs to be combined with keen and that entire package.

Actually better than the normal maximum crit confirmation bonus (+4) at very high levels.

Lock Gaze

Would be really good if there is a backstabbing rogue in the party. Otherwise it is a way to buff AC the same way Blur does, but has a save.

I find this very cool and appropriate for a cleric.

Oh, it is also very appropriate for any exhibitionistic character. Just pondering if the fun aspect is worth the opportunity cost vs other spells on the same level. How much can others benefit? Is there any other effect than 20% miss chance vs others?

It ought to allow Stealth, likely give distraction penalties to Perception. Might make Performances more effective on one target. Highly stuntable.

Peacebond

Part of a "I'm protecting this temple" package? Would be sweet if temples gave you certain spells you could cast inside them, such as Peacebond, Ceremony, Consecrate...

hallow does just this, only it has a specific list that has not been updated.

Was thinking more of a "being inside the place counts as having a staff or a 3.5 runestaff" effect. Hallow is more of a limited permanency thing.

Imbue with spell ability in hallow could do this (if allowed) - but how would the spell slot work. :o

Howling Agony

Icky.

Righteous Blood

More restricted Fire Shield. Also rather icky.

Gallant Inspiration

Solid roll-saving buff, 2d4 is not large compared to others, but you only cast it when you need it.

Does this infringe on the bard?

Garrulous Grin

For social situations where you compete for favor:: e.g. intrigues at a court. See Deceitful Veneer.

Removed these intruige-y spells. There are inquisitors for that.

Honeyed Tongue

Big long-time diplomacy buff.

Arcane Disruption

Forces a concentration check on all spells cast and spell-like abilities used, *but* while a normal concentration check has a DC based on spell level, this one has a DC of 10 + 1/2 target's own caster level... so you force a roll of "caster level + statmod + d20 vs 1/2 caster level + 10". This is equivalent to "1/2 caster level + statmod + d20 vs 10"... which quickly becomes trivial, as far as I can tell.

Stupidly written, DC should be based on the caster. Still sucky to the point of not being useful. Removed from list as useless.

Deflect Blame

Nice to save from a failed social roll, but cannot help trying to figure out what happens when you deflect a failed Diplomacy or Bluff to someone else. Do everybody think it was someone else that spoke, or do they inexplicably become angry with another person?

Targets think the other person spoke (my reading).

Confess

Can you see if the target takes damage? In that case you can see if they tell the truth or not, even if they save vs the spell.

Yes, but target can refuse to answer.

Haunting Choir

Icky

Weaker stinking cloud. I am at least semi-positive to polishing some of the icky off the horror spells.

Hollow Heroism

For infiltrating betrayers.

Removed, see Garrulous Grin

Keen Edge

Critfisher package.

Litany of Righteousness

this + cleric with good aura + heal + undead target = absolute killer combo. But you have to tag-team or quicken, as duration only is one round.

Cast-time is swift action. Not entirely sure heal and harm are "attacks", at least by RAI.

Deceitful Veneer

For social situations where you compete for favor:: e.g. intrigues at a court. See Garrulous Grin.

Removed, see Garrulous Grin

Grand Destiny

Substandard buff: only two uses, have to declare in advance, and you most probably already have competence bonuses at this point. 4E-ish in that the crunch does not live up to the name.

This can buff caster level, very few things do. Otherwise, its junk.

Feast on Fear

Icky.

Forced Repentance

What happens after?

Repentance is momentary. 4E mis-flavor.

Leashed Shackles

30' leash + entangle. Cannot be broken, only dispelled. Not dismissable.

Named Bullet

"Once the target is used to attack the selected creature, successfully or not, this spell is discharged."

So, one crit bonus extra damage if a hit, but first single attack only. So appx equivalent one, two or three extra fighter attacks, depending on weapon. Would have been real nasty with a lance-charging paladin or the heal vs undead, but is there any thrown weapon that does that kind of massive damage?

You also add caster level to damage and it can be a touch attack for that really vital attack. Stacks well for other special effects, like Sneak Attack.

Telepathic Bond

Solidly useful, as shown in previous campaigns.

Brilliant Inspiration

Buff is good, but suffers from a 4E fluff/effect disconnect. If you send instructions to the target through a mind link, can you also *communicate*, i.e. transfer other information? And if you instruct someone through other means, would they also get +2? :) :)

Seems the "communication" is on the subconscious level, so yes, 4E disconect.